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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.20 00:58:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Lolion Reglo on 20/08/2011 01:07:01
 Originally by: ThisIsntMyMain
Picking a "home" system makes the map too static - It encourages alliances to stay in one place. We really don't need to go back 6 months to a static north with too many carebears and no combat. Alliances that choose not to have a fixed base of operations should not have an unfair handicap or advantage.
This is counter intuitive to creating a Logistics network. Having a home system not only encourages improvement of the systems but also is a natural breeding ground for logistic networks.
Here are my ideas for logistics.
Firstly is on jump bridges, KEEP THEM. they are essential for logistic networks and allow a player to create their own. in fact a few simple changes will make it easier for the player to perform their movement duties and allow a certain amount of danger that an attacking group can cause quite the headache for a defender.
Make jump bridges along the lines of POS's. - to do this make it so that it doesn't need a POS to be placed. that it also has no shield and is the only structure placed. MAYBE ad a gun or turret for some protection but make it so a small gang can either disable it, and a large gang can destroy it. (some sort of calculation via DPS or something along those lines.)
Centralize the jump bridges into a network. - Before you start giving me flak just listen. Make an entire system dedicated to jump bridges, You can balance it by not allowing solid structures like outposts to be placed in this system and it can only be made via owning the system and improving with a "Nexus" upgrade. A bonus for doing this to a system is that fuel costs are slashed and or any other ideas you can gather from this. This not only makes a single system an attacker can focus on if they want to grief but allows the owner of the system to make his logistics easier by shortening the time it takes to move over a great distance. Also limit this upgrade to 1 per alliance. that way you don't have several all over the place breaking this idea.
Allow 1 and only 1 jump bridge per unowned or non "Nexus'd" system. - what this will do is allow an Alliance the ability to set up a small logistics network but also let them place a Jump bridge in a system closer to where they want without owning said system. To balance you can make a jump bridge to an unowned system cost more to jump ships than if you owned the system. but this would also allow for large scale attacks into an enemy territory as ill explain below.
Only allow Freighter to carry and place jump bridges. - By allowing a jump bridge to be placed by freighter not only makes for a dangerous job but if you try and place one in enemy territory then it requires careful planning and allows for greater and easier access to attack an enemy than a cyno. same cavets to placement applies as well. (must be in system with no structures giving incentive to clear a system out and still has mass pools limiting number and size of ships allowed through.) this makes attacking an enemy a littler easier for prolonged campaigns.
Make a Mass "pool" to limit abuse. - This works in the idea that if you have a frigate a bunch can go through without issue, if you have a battleship then a small handful can cross before it needs to charge, If you have a freighter or Capital class ship only 1 can go through. timers can be determined via CCP to allow for proper balance and the timer can be extended if the system is unowned, is normal if it is and shortened if the system is a nexus. This allows people to move through the nexus system faster but limits how many enter allowing for prolonged fights at a gate at the other end. you can also move in a jump bridge to an enemy system to move ships that way too.
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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.20 01:07:00 -
[2]
Make Cynos have the Mass "pool" as well and different levels to ships jumping. - the idea was brought up that a class 1 cyno can bring in carriers and dreads and jump freighters, a class 2 also knows as covert cyno for black ops and a class three "or tech III" cyno to bring in super caps and titans. this not only limits what ships can call in super caps but adding in the Mass "Pool" will limit how many come in allowing a defensive fleet the upper hand. This mass pool can be vastly modified if say a few ships were giving the cyno ship capacitor to jump in more ships and bigger ships faster. this limits the Q.Q ing of people saying they're tired of blob super caps but still allows an attacker to get in their ships to face of against an enemy.
Titan bridges. - I don't know what to do with honestly. i only used 1 once and don't know how to fit it in with my ideas. quite honestly if all my ideas are adopted then it would almost negate them save for the idea that its a great temporary solution for a logistics network. in fact one could limit the ships that can go through to sub capital ships only( no freighters, as so you don't have a lot of caps flying through this way. This can allow for a fast deployment of sub cap fleets and enable the defense of a Tech III cyno to bring in supers.
Feel free to support or tear apart my ideas as you want. i know im not the most experienced player of null sec but if we make logistics and movement easier for alliances we can have them focus less on maintaining things and getting bored via tedium and focus more on protecting their assets and fighting and or mining and industry.
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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.20 16:02:00 -
[3]
Originally by: George Holden
All the "whiners" complaining about logistics getting too hard what's the problem there? If you produce all T1, some T2 and get the ice from your home what's the point of logistics then? Doing the occasional run to the city to grab new tools and maybe a fancy gardenhose doesn't sound to bad when you can get most of the things you need from your own garden?
While i agree with you that we need to support home grown production the idea of making logistics harder in and of itself will stagnate and kill any sort of economy in null sec. The reason being is simple economics. if you build everything you need in null sec and on occasion go out to buy things there is no income gained except in materials and higher outflow going to jita is in isk spent... not materials exported. This imbalance will cause any sort of basic economy out there to starve itself.
What is needed for a group of people to be able to live out in null sec is a trade chain to high sec where the markets are, and the materials to produce gear and equipment in null sec as well. you need both. that way when you have all this extra ammo you will never all use, you can export it to jita and make a boatload of isk, because you were able to produce it more cheaply than igh sec industry from harvesting your own minerals to cheaper production slots. and better BPC's. that and if you trade with other economies in null sec you can also get a greater variety of gear and more isk instead of trading with high sec.
The main issue around making isk however and creating an economy that supports players out in null sec is that you NEED an easy and simple to use Logistics network to be able to move goods to where they can sell the best. Be it high sec or a neighboring constellation/Region. Not doing so causes the player to not care about mining their system because they cant easily export the goods and rely solely on PvP or ratting for isk... which not everyone wants to do, which in turn makes people leave and its a big chain reaction. but if you bring out industry that can thrive and produce products as effectivly as high sec and give bonuses to certain types of gear, not only will you boost the null sec economy but you will also generate more income in the game as well.
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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.08.22 17:26:00 -
[4]
The problem with logistics is that it relies on so many other factors for it to work right. But we have to stop and take a look at what the idea behind logistics and movement mean in null sec.
First of all the idea of logistics is to move either personnel and or materials from one location to another. This in high sec is typically done by using the gates and planning routes on roads that are already mapped out. The difference with null sec is that you can get shot without warning using these gates. This adds to the area and makes it dangerous which to some is a boon. but to the industry and haulers is a nightmare. so the position right now that we are at is that there is only the gates to jump through to travel around as efficiently as possible.
This is partially because there isnt much to export. we as a society are importing more to null sec than we are exporting. im talking the entire area too not just large alliances bringing in moon goo. So a lot of the movement is away. I personally think this is backwards especially with how "lucrative and rich" null sec is cut out to be. there are more minerals and money to be made out there or at least that is the idea CCP has set out right now.
Now this next part is assuming that industry and mining get a HUGE boom and we now have alot of materials to export to high sec and the safer markets. What will kill the growth of the industry and mining in null sec is the use of gates to travel. Yes i know you guys want to kill the haulers and grab some loot but if the majority of the shipments cant get through people will continue to work and produce in high sec and then your target pool dries up. So there is a need for a logistics network that provides a quicker route, and safer passage for industrial and miners.
Now as i have stated in my post 70 and post 71, There are several ways we can create a logistics network and yet still retain some danger without making it impossible to hunt down shipments and harass indy pilots.
What these ideas will do is make logistics and movement easier and simpler to use. This is important because if you make it too hard people wont use it. i play the game to enjoy myself... not for a second job after all. now i have kinda only touched on the shipment aspect of logistics and not troop movement. So ill run down the movement aspect.
You have a fleet you want to move quickly to counter an incoming gang to your systems. Currently you would have to jump through 7 gates to get there and they are 5 jumps away from entering your space. (your scouts are good by the way) Right now you have the numbers advantage and strength but it relies on you getting set up first on the gate to ambush them. But thankfully with your jump bridge in your system you can jump to your nexus system, warp to the next bridge and then be in the system you need to set up, with them still being 2 jumps out... get the idea? the network not only allows ease of movement but also gives the defenders of a system a home field advantage in that movement is easier.
Another example is you have an enemy gate camping one of your systems. there is only one entrance and that leads straight into their ambush. luckily they haven't spotted your jump bridge at one of your moons because they haven't done their Intel right. so you take your response fleet, jump through the bridge and flank them, saving several of your pilots ships. Even more different scenarios can be thought of for this.
tl;dr
What im saying is make logistics easier and you can fight better and move mass better too. Doing this allows for growth and will build up the wallets while your at it.
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Lolion Reglo
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2011.09.02 00:55:00 -
[5]
I agree with the ph34r factor idea. half of moving through null sec is the ph34r of losing your ships and cargo. i am all for the idea of instilling the ph34r back into null sec and i want that. but the option of a fast easy network to move around is still essential to not only making it easier to move supplies but make it so players can get back to playing the game instead of moving stuff around. So how about this.
Make Jump bridges have a cool down timer before it can be used more than once. That way if you jump through one it will take at least 30 seconds to a minute before you can jump back through.
Also have jump bridges stand alone from POSes but with the same level HP as a large POS. that way you can still destroy them but small gangs will take forever to do it.
by adopting both of these factors not only would you make jump bridges more vulnerable to camps but you would almost be deterred from using them without a scout going through first to make sure a gang who did their intel gathering right isnt waiting in ambush for a nice juicy freighter to jump through.
So dont cut how quick you can move things or how easy logistics can become... just make it more riskier to use for the ease of which you can move things then. |
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